Music Stores That Suck
Sam Ash Music

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More lies

-On January 17, 2000 (page 14) Paul Kirk told me:
"I am able to provide you with an exchange on the hoops and rims because we stock these items"
- On February 18, 2000 (page 16) Paul Ash told me:
"we have all your items on order from Gretsch."
- On February 21, 2000 (page 16) Paul Kirk told me:
"The snare drum, new 10" hoops and the RIM mounts have been ordered and as soon as they arrive we will be shipping these items to you."
- On October 31, 2000 (page 17) David Ash told me:
"... we have made every possible effort to satisfy you as a customer... we have attempted to fill that order."

According to what you can see on the previous page (page 18) we have here another proof that Paul Ash and David Ash are liars, the snare drum has NEVER been ordered contrary to what I have been told. The hoops and rims that Sam Ash stock according to Paul Kirk (page 14) have never been sent.

- On May 07, 1999 (page 05) the Thoroughbred email autoresponder message was:
"Thoroughbred thanks you, and new ownership welcomes you. Beginning May 1 we will be Sam Ash Music."
- On May 13, 1999 (page 06) Paul Ash told me:
"Sam Ash Music has taken over Thoroughbred..."
- On February 18, 2000 (page 16) Paul Ash told me:
"My company purchased the premises of Thoroughbred Music... but the cost represents a total loss to me"
- On November 02, 2000 (page 17) David Ash told me:
"You placed an order for some Gretsch drum equipment with Thoroughbred Music, before we acquired their business..."

What I found on their website:, (they have changed the store location so the link will not give you that result)
Sam Ash retail locations
Every Sam Ash Musical Instrument MegaStore offers a complete selection of the latest musical equipment and accessories from the most famous manufacturers. Click below for a list of Sam Ash Musical Instrument Megastores in that state:

Tampa • 2204 East Hillsborogh Avenue 33610
(813) 238-6485 Fax: (813) 238-5443
Store hours are :
Monday - Friday: 11:00 AM to 8:00 PM
Saturday: 10:00 AM to 7:00 PM
Sunday: 12:00 Noon to 5:00 PM

Let's compare the Thoroughbred adress on their fax on page 02 :
Thoroughbred Music
2204 Hillsborogh Avenue Tampa FL 33610
(813) 238-6485 Fax (813) 238-5443

Same adress, same phone and fax number, there is no doubt Thoroughbred Music is now actually Sam Ash.

We have once again another proof that Paul Ash is a liar when he says "but the cost represents a total loss to me" on February 18, 2000 (page 16). Sam Ash acquired Thoroughbred Music therefore they 'acquired' my money too.

After 776 days (2 years and 1 month) and an incredible amount of time and money I decided that the game was over and my money lost. Every lawyer I talked with in France told me they could nothing, every lawyer I talked with in the United States told me they could do nothing without losing more money.

Here is an estimation of my losses, it does not include interest charges, dozens of hours lost and the fact that I still couldn't use 3 out of 7 drums over 2 years after I paid them and even 2 out of 7 after purchasing rims mounts for the second time:

Taxes and customs
(paid on items I never received and on items I had to send back and never received)
Return of rims mounts and hoops $50
Lawyer fees
(2 registered letters on September 1999 (page 12) and December 1999 (page 13)
1 Snare drum
(never received)
2 Lugs
(never received)
2 Rims mounts
(received but I had to send them back and never received the good ones)
2 Hoops
(received but I had to send them back and never received the good ones)

Total: $1296

- On June 11, 1999 (page 8), although I had already lost several hundreds of $, I offered them to send me some pair of sticks in compensation.
- On January 23, 2000 (page 15) I offered them to send me an extra snare drum.
- On October 17, 2000 (page 17) I offered them to buy the domain name for $2000 to get rid of me forever (that is a fair price regarding what you can see above)

The answer has always been: NO (read: no way, we won't give you
a single cent for the money you lost thanks to our serious mistakes)

The only proposition I had was a phone call on October 29 or 30, 2000 when a guy from Sam Ash offered me to order ANOTHER snare drum AFTER seeing a preview of this site, of course this is NOT acceptable.

- On June 10, 1999 (page 07) Cynthia told me:
"We will credit you for the shipping you will have to pay to get the package back to us"
No need to say that this has been totally "forgotten" by Paul Ash and David Ash.

Here is a good reason for them to do this:
since I'm in France
They have nothing to fear from justice

Here is a conversation I had with an American lawyer:

I understand your frustration. Unfortunately American law does not allow you what you want. If you can prove breach of contract, which I assume you can, you are entitled to recover damages that naturally flow from that breach. That is actual money damage that you can prove. Examples are the cost to obtain the missing parts from another source or, at best, your money back. Pain, suffering, inconvenience, anger, frustration, loss of time and aggravation are not recoverable damages. Punitive damages are recoverable only if you could prove that they intended to defraud you from the outset. This is not likely. The costs of suing Ash would greatly exceed the $3500 you paid. In addition you would have to come to a trial here in Florida at your own expense to prove your case. It is very doubtful that you could recover any attorneys fees from Ash Music. In a nutshell, even though Ash may have breached their agreement with you, you do not have a viable case from what you have described. Our firm would not handle it under any circumstances because I am certain you would not be pleased with the result that would be obtained. If you want us to try to get the missing parts, we will do that. If you want to sue, you will need to find another attorney to represent you. I can not recommend one to you because I know of no other attorney who would file the suit under these circumstances. Normally, you would file a small claims action yourself and not hire an attorney for something like this. With you thousands of miles away, this is not a very viable alternative either. I am sorry I can not be of more help, but I just don't believe you can win by filing a lawsuit. You would be putting more good money out and not getting it back in return.

My lawyer told me she can't do anything in France except sending them a letter, what I already paid her twice for this, if both of you can't do anything means if I order items in the United States and people don't want to send them my money is lost? What can you do to try to get the missing parts?

Call them, write them, threaten to sue them. Generally, they will deal with an attorney who has the present perceived ability to sue them, even though they may realize such action is not practical. What you are experiencing is the difficulty in dealing in a global world of free trade. I think it will get worse before it gets better.

Attention musicians !!!!!

If you live outside United States, ordering in the US
is a bad idea if the store is called Sam Ash Music,
you will have no way to recover
your money from dishonest people.

If you live in the United States,
you have enough good reasons here
for never ordering at Sam Ash Music,
a company managed by two thieves and liars.


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